Silk road

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david newman
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Silk road

Postby david newman » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:54 pm

Jeff, those notes were totally captivating and very well written. It's almost sensory/information overload, a Johnny Mnemonic.

I have a friend who wants to buy the most silky, creamy and satiny reds regardless of appellation that have a chance for long life as a theme for purchasing the 2015 vintage. If the silkiest wines won't last long I guess that might be ok too for him but he would like to follow the evolution of the wines in bottle for, say ten years or more. He won't buy Petrus or lafleur because he only buys by the case but all other names are game.

He will buy around 5 cases of the expensive stuff and three cases of less expensive stuff to protect the former as it glides to maturity. He loves Pomerol, St. Emilion and Margaux and pessac appellations all equally.

So take me down the Silk Road...

Jeff Leve
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Re: Silk road

Postby Jeff Leve » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:49 pm

David... If it was me, I'd by 10, six bottle cases. Better way to look at the vintage. I'd let style and price guide you. These are the links to the top wines for Pomerol and St. Emilion in 2015.

150 tasting notes/scores for St. Emilion - www.thewinecellarinsider.com/2016/04/20 ... nes-rated/

60 tasting notes/scores for Pomerol - www.thewinecellarinsider.com/2016/04/20 ... wines-buy/

Dave Poppons
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Re: Silk road

Postby Dave Poppons » Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:06 pm

[quote][/quote]

What ten names would you buy

Jeff Leve
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Re: Silk road

Postby Jeff Leve » Sun May 01, 2016 8:35 am

Perhaps the best 2015 Bordeaux wine that fit what you are seeking, off the top of my head...

Petrus
Lafleur
Cheval Blanc
Angelus
Ausone
Canon
Clinet
L'Eglise Clinet
Trotanoy
l'Evangile
La Conseillante
Haut Brion
Margaux
Palmer

There are probably others. Best thing for you to do is look at my notes and descriptors..... Ask me here with any follow-up questions....

Generally speaking, that is what you find in Pomerol and St. Emilion in the top vintages.

Dave Poppons
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Re: Silk road

Postby Dave Poppons » Sun May 01, 2016 10:33 pm

Thank you for that and it is much the same list as what I have come up with after reading your notes four times over. i am warming up to the idea of a six pack for each chateaux and ten chateaux with representatives from both sides of the river to be a time capsule and cross-section of the vintage.

david newman
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Re: Silk road

Postby david newman » Sun May 22, 2016 3:39 pm

Have the list down to these:

angelus
ausone
cheval
canon
troplong mondot
clinet
haut brion
margaux

will buy half or full cases depending on prices which don't look too bad now but could still go crazy.

Dave Poppons
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Re: Silk road

Postby Dave Poppons » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:44 pm

Prices are getting uglier as the moments pass

Jeff Leve
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Re: Silk road

Postby Jeff Leve » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:30 pm

David... In my opinion, a lot of the 2015 Bordeaux wines you want to buy are priced fairly, when you measure their level of quality and the price of equally high level back vintages.

Howard Cooper
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Re: Silk road

Postby Howard Cooper » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:45 pm

david newman wrote:Jeff, those notes were totally captivating and very well written. It's almost sensory/information overload, a Johnny Mnemonic.

I have a friend who wants to buy the most silky, creamy and satiny reds regardless of appellation that have a chance for long life as a theme for purchasing the 2015 vintage. If the silkiest wines won't last long I guess that might be ok too for him but he would like to follow the evolution of the wines in bottle for, say ten years or more. He won't buy Petrus or lafleur because he only buys by the case but all other names are game.

He will buy around 5 cases of the expensive stuff and three cases of less expensive stuff to protect the former as it glides to maturity. He loves Pomerol, St. Emilion and Margaux and pessac appellations all equally.

So take me down the Silk Road...


You did not specify that wine has to be Bordeaux, so look to burgundies - What can be silkier than a good Musigny or Romanee St Vivant.

Jeff Leve
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Re: Silk road

Postby Jeff Leve » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Howard, wines need depth and concentration to be silky. Bordeaux is silk and velvet. Burgundy, at least to me is more elegant. Do you agree, or ?

Dave Poppons
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Re: Silk road

Postby Dave Poppons » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:19 pm

Funny you should mention that Howard, and, in my brief wine life I have had some musigny's and I can only remember what one of the wines tasted like. And that was vogüé. And I remember how it tasted because it was so silky. So if that is the only wine that sticks in my mind isn't that what comts the most?

Dave Poppons
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Re: Silk road

Postby Dave Poppons » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:10 am

And Jeff,

This is a very interesting topic you are getting into regarding the silkiness of wine and I would like to hear or read more about it. I am totally guessing that this quality relates to the tannin quality/quantity and/or something about the fruit. Cheval blanc springs to mind, especially when tasted with other St. Emilions which in the past at least had been more austere but that is changing.

As an aside, I saw the IMW was hosting a lecture on wine minerality which looked interesting. It would be equally cool to have one on tannin quality and the different effects tannins imbue on wine taste and longevity. And also wood, cause that is another source for tannins in wine. Makes me think of Mouton and the 2010 which is, for me an incredible wine. I don't have any but have tasted it at tastings twice and at the tastings just was thinking it was so intense and balanced yet superstrong and powerful, a huge wine but I wasn't thinking about silkiness. But now that we are speaking about it, it was supersilky too. I wonder how the 2010 would be side by side with the 2015?

Jeff Leve
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Re: Silk road

Postby Jeff Leve » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:32 pm

Dave.. If I understand your question, textures are brought about primarily by the tannins, coupled with the depth of raw materials, sugar levels, style of extraction, the aging process and grape variety. Each contributes to the texture. But the ripeness of the tannins is at the top of the list. You cannot make silky, opulently textured wines without without ripe tannins. Does this answer your question?

Dave Poppons
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Re: Silk road

Postby Dave Poppons » Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:32 pm

yes. and now that I brought up comte de vogue I am really jonsing for that wine and I think will probably have it again in july at a tasting. Its really expensive so I don't drink it much, just at tastings.

On another note I have secured the haut brion, margaux, troplong mondot, clinet, angelus, canon and am waiting to hear on pricing for the ausone and the cheval. Its fun to buy futures, kind of like gambling. And I don't mean gambling money but gambling on getting the best wine and taking a risk based on tasters notes. And if one screws up, there is always the possibility of buying more or other names later, but the prices might be higher...or lower (ouch!)

Howard Cooper
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Re: Silk road

Postby Howard Cooper » Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:27 am

Jeff Leve wrote:Howard, wines need depth and concentration to be silky. Bordeaux is silk and velvet. Burgundy, at least to me is more elegant. Do you agree, or ?


I don't really think of Bordeaux as a silky wine. I think that Bordeaux has too much tannin to be considered silky. It can be powerful or even complex, but not silky. In contrast to your comment, I do not see how a wine that is not elegant can be silky. I picked Musigny and Romanee St. Vivant because they have good richness and unbelievable elegance and complexity. If you want less expensive Burgundy, try other wines from Chambolle-Musigny (probably not Bonnes Mares, which are wonderful but more powerful) or VOLNAY.

I know that you do not like Burgundy. I really find that to be a flaw in your ability to taste wine. Burgundy and Bordeaux are the two greatest wine regions in the world and that has been true for hundreds of years. If you cannot see the greatness in both wine regions, the fault is in you and not in the wines, frankly.


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